We have to have playdates because of where our house is. Not one of those neighborhoods where kids can just run to a friend's house and while away an afternoon. We do have a child just our children's age living right next door...but he actively shuns their company. I know this because for weeks, they'd ask him over, and he'd just decline. It got to where my children looked like stalkers or fools or both, so I had them stop. Oy, the pain of it all.
The whole playdate thing is a big black hole of a social mystery to me. Another parent might casually mention having one as you volunteer together in class. I've always taken this as sincere--and I think that's my first mistake--and then sat there, like the dateless girl on prom night, waiting for the phone call or email confirming a plan. They never come.
In fact, playdates never happen around our house unless we host them, with a couple of rare exceptions. My middle son has had several friends over to play, yet has not been invited to someone else's home (again, with one specific exception) in almost a year. In just the last month, I've sent out two emails asking if someone he thinks of as a friend could come over and...after an initial potentially positive response involving, "let me check my calendar,"...nothing.
What's the algorithm here? Is "let me check my calendar" some kind of in-speak for "um, no, not really interested"? And regardless, what is it about us...about our family...that makes us such personae non grata in other people's homes? It makes me want to pound melodramatically on a wall and just yell out "Why???!? Why??!" when one of my sons comes to me, yet again, and asks why we haven't heard yet from this friend or that friend's mother about an invitation issued weeks ago. I am honest with them. I say that it may be that the other person's interest in him isn't as strong as his interest in them, or maybe they're just that busy. What else can I say? I try, these days, to do more reading of what people do than of what they say. I find the results are far more accurate.
And then there's the cause of it all. Is it my children? Are they just too weird? Is it me? Am I just too weird? Is it them, the other people? Are they just too busy or rolling their eyes inwardly at the very idea or simply reluctant but too kind to let on? I don't know. This social shit can muddle me up until I don't know whether I'm showing my ass or my elbows, stepping on toes, being pushy, not reading signs. I'm always navigating without instruments, and Emily Post doesn't seem to address the etiquette of playdates.
I've never been much good at these casual exchanges that seem to augur a planned social interaction, always taking them too seriously, at their face value. When I was younger and someone said, "Let's do lunch," well...I thought they meant we were going to go to lunch. What they really mean, of course, is..."well, see ya later, don't really care when we might meet again."
It's baffling to me that people say these things that they simply don't mean. I've even had one parent go so far as to input our contact information into her phone--never really meaning to do anything about it. When did, "Let's get these kids together" turn into "Nope, not really interested, just trying to be nice"? I missed the etiquette memo, and I desperately need some guidelines.
Meanwhile, my children keep asking. And that little knot in my stomach--you special needs parents know that knot, right?--tightens up like it's trying to wring something out in there. Since my children are watching, I try not to let it wring out any tears.
28 comments:
Hey, I'm right here with you on this whole thing, even though my children are neurotypical.
First, I've recognized that generalized statements about playdates ("oh we should have a playdate") aren't invitations, and don't become them until they have a where & when attached. Until then, they're just babble.
Second, I think it does mean something when someone doesn't reciprocate an invitation. But, it might mean that they are lazy/busy/unable to host, rather than that they are trying to end the interchange. So, I still make offers to host. If those offers are accepted, I ignore the inequity of hosting (because I don't mind hosting).
Third, parents of neurotypical kids have these problems, too. One of my kids doesn't make friends easily. But, the other one is an excellent playdate. He's flexible and playful and accommodating and almost always happy and compliant with parents. But, I have the same kinds of problems you describe with him (as I do with the other quirkier kid).
Fourth, yes, we're relevant. Popular moms are more likely to get playdate invites for their kids. Popularity can be a personality trait or a practical trait (i.e. famous or rich or some other characteristic that would make people want to invite us to parties).
Fifth. I find organized social activity is useful as a method of helping my kids with these interactions: most notably, a girl scout troop, hosting sports/other event parties, etc. Those semi-organized events create work for me, but help me deal with the difficulties I have in initiating these social interactions. I take on those jobs, but I know my family benefits, so I don't resent it.
We also live in an area where playdates are necessary. And, I too find it heartbreaking to negotiate all of these social minefields for my kids, far more so than I did dealing with my own social life.
Assuming the questions weren't rhetorical, anyone else want to share how they negotiate playdate social situations? As Emily says, I appreciate these things being made explicit, too.
PS: I am hopeful that my kids are approaching being able to set up their own playdates, but my kids are neurotypical (notably, the younger less quirky kid is already there, while the older one is still reluctant). It might take longer with even more quirky kids, but perhaps there are ways to guide them to that goal?
Unfortunately, I'm in the same boat. My son thinks he is "best friends" with a kid and wants to have them over to play and then.... nothing. Hard to explain to a four year old. With one particular family it went so far as actually setting up a time and a date, telling my son about it, and then the kid not showing up. Three days later the mom called me back with an "oh, I totally forgot. Sorry!" Right. I was sorry when my son threw himself around, screaming for two hours after your kid was supposed to come over. The worst part? She did it to me again the following week. Needless to say, we stopped inviting that child over. Don't know if the mom was flaky or just too afraid/rude to say no. Obviously she has no idea what it is like to have a child with autism-he does not deal with getting stood up very well.
Kind of nice to know that I'm not the only one.
I'm kind of at the beginning of this period with Charlotte. We too have to set up playdates. I haven't invited anyone over yet and no one has invited Charlotte yet. There are some girls she talks about a lot and I'm pretty sure the friendships are mutual. I think I'm going to set one up soon (like next few weeks) and see how it goes. I don't really have a clue what I'm doing.
As for the etiquette piece, I'd have to say I'm sure I'm clueless too. If we host a playdate and an invitation is not reciprocated, I'm not sure what I'll think. Guess I'd have to wait and see how the playdate goes
Thinking about this stuff makes we want to throw up.
But I feel like I have an obligation to foster social opportunities for Charlotte given her needs.
I kind of think the "we should get the kids together sometime" is an alternate to "oooh, I like your shoes/shirt/hair" and equally noncommittal. Also I think it varies widely whether the parents let the kids make the decision or enforce some social etiquette in reciprocating.
I tend to assume that other kids are overscheduled. We also haven't gotten the class contact list yet, so maybe that will change? It's kind of ridiculous that play has to be such a difficult thing to navigate.
My daughter (NT) has tons of playdates which makes my son (autistic) jealous. His interests, behaviors, and maturity level are not really conducive to playdates even though he is 3 years older than his sister.
This summer, while walking the mall with his mom, my son encountered the mother of one of the (NT) girls in his class. Without first checking with her own daughter, the other mother suggested to my wife and son that they get together for a playdate the following week.
Not surpirsingly, when the alotted day came around the girl "came down with a cold". They never rescheduled. My son was heartbroken. For days. It wasn't the mother's fault or even the little girl's. The mother made a promise without thinking and the girl was completely within her rights not to want to participate. Nonetheless, it was brutal. I cried with / for my son for hours.
We've been shunned since my son was 2 and his bro an infant. That's why I attempted to socialize in the biggest clique there is... a rural village.
That's when I decided they could go to.....
Instead of playdates we go to Scouts(eldest) in the village, we go to swimming (both) and kids club (friend's host at their church - both). We haven't even hosted a birthday party yet. We've had our friend's daughter over once in a while to visit, but rarely.
Truth is, I can't stand most OPK's. They are the worst behaved brats... He does have a couple of other male friends up the road and I do need to invite them over again. These boys I do like.
So no... we don't do playdates. Ironically, we keep busy enough, they don't seem to miss them.
That's when I attempted to get into the clique in the village...
Typos. I thought I got them all :)
Playdates....don't even want to think about them. Noah has only been on a few, and I'm not chomping at the bit to schedule anymore. With Noah the biggest issue is usually that he tends to get bossed, pushed, talked into doing things that are not acceptable, and just generally used and abused. And it doesn't seem to matter if the other kids are NT or not. Luckily, I have been present at all of his playdates thus far (and unless things change I will be for a long time to come).
It's really kind of sad because he really needs the socialization that playdates provide, but he has to go through so much crap to get it.
Interestingly, I was just discussing playdates on my blog a couple days ago. I'm so sorry you and your boys are going through this. Adults just don't understand how hard this can be for kids to understand.
I think Charlie has had maybe one playdate?
Rather shock/annoyed/irked by the lack of social mores of the other adults though.
And always with you and your guys.
Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg wrote an awesome post on this a few weeks ago. I shared it on my Facebook, and I talked to some people who weren't autistic but were not Americans. It seems to be a cultural thing more than a neurotypical vs. autistic thing, but the fact that it has become accepted socially in America makes it harder for autistic people to pick it up.
I've had the same problem for pretty much my entire life, and I didn't get it until I read Rachel's post on the subject. My non-autistic boyfriend then explained to me that it's basically a way of saying, "You do not freak me out." And it's more of a social nicety than an actual desire to hang out. Of course this isn't always the case which makes it even more frustrating.
The only reason I get to hang out with people regularly is that it is understood in my group of friends that people show up to my friend Ray's house on Friday and Saturday. So I go there every week, sometimes just Saturday and sometimes just Friday, because I'm guaranteed to see at least a couple other people. Before this, planning things was really difficult. I wish it was easier because I'm a pretty social person and I want to make more friends, but I can't be sure whether they're really asking to hang out unless they're people I regularly hang out with.
wow, zb's comment was great!
"I try, these days, to do more reading of what people do than of what they say. I find the results are far more accurate." You probably came to this common-sense conclusion sooner than I did. I agree with Kristina in choosing to think the other adults are less socially adept than me.
I recommend you print-out zb's comment and keep it handy. Might do that myself. Barbara
Emily, I think it's hugely ironic that autistic people are supposed to be lousy at social reciprocity, and yet many of us see it as a necessity and are absolutely shocked when other people don't reciprocate. I'm autistic, as was my father, and when I was a kid, it was assumed that you reciprocate invitations, follow through on the things you say, and so on. My father was adamant about these things.
As Kat mentioned, I've been blogging about the whole "What the hell do they really mean?" and "What happened to common courtesy?" issues, so you're not alone. My NT daughter got stood up by two of the four kids who were supposed to come to her 15th birthday party, and I cried over it more than she did. I'm not sure when "Yes, I'll come to your party" turned into "Blah blah meaningless blah blah," but something has drastically changed since I was younger.
If you'd like to read my rants on these issues, see
http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/10/18/im-ignoring-you/
http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/09/30/word-of-honor/
I think you can't ever underestimate how flaky other people are. Back when my daughter was itsy-bitsy and an only child, I used to organize playgroups at our house. I'd scurry around cleaning up for an hour or so, try to keep things tidy and getting all stressed out, and then at least 50% of the time, nobody would come. I have very happy memories of the times when it actually worked, but as far as providing regular peer social interaction, I did much better by agreeing to nanny for another little girl my daughter's age. That was one of the best things I ever did for her social life, although giving her a little brother is probably #1.
My daughter is a 3rd grader now and she tests high probable for Asperger's. I think she is on friendly terms with almost everybody in her class at her private school (and we all worked pretty hard to get her to this neutral/mildly positive position), but there's only one other family at school that regularly invites us for one-on-one stuff (we do get a fair number of birthday party invites). I used to work a lot harder at trying to book
playdates, but Saturdays are so busy now (therapeutic riding for my daughter, free Lowes projects with the kids, grocery shopping, shoe shopping, flu shots, haircuts, yard work, confession, astronomy club stuff for my husband, cleaning the kids' rooms with them, taking stuff to Goodwill) that it's challenging just to take care of basic, routine tasks. We don't have to do each of those things every week, but we do have to do at least four of them. I suppose we could make more of a point of inviting other kids to join us at Lowes or star parties. There's also Friday after school, Sunday afternoon (after everybody gets out of church), and those long summer months. I actually have not a bad acceptance and completion rate with playdates, it's just that it all seems to depend on me. I need to get more proactive about it, because we're getting very close to the point where it's totally child-driven, and I'm pretty sure that unless we work really hard now, she's eventually going to be frozen out.
Saturdays--so busy, summers?
Large families--create own social
I see I didn't notice some notes I left at the bottom. Oops.
I've noticed that it's difficult to get a playdate with a larger family, since their schedules have so many more moving parts, and a big family just automatically creates its own social life.
Very similar situation here. Unfortunately, for little kids, the best opportunities for playdates are with neighbors, because it's more natural. I grew up neurotypical and had tons of friends in the neighborhood, however even my best friends in school would rarely visit, until we got to at least 3rd or 4th grade and only with our "bestest" buddies. Not all parents bother driving somewhere to a playdate especially if they're not already friends with the mother/father. It can get awkward. The best way is to make friends with the parents first, then invite. That's what's usually works for me. I'm no social butterfly either.
Thanks for all the replies and ideas and your own stories.
@xantippe... we do sort of create our own social life, having three boys pretty close in age, but they also yearn for their very own friends. That said, they spend a LOT of very happy time together.
@christophersmom I have *tried* to befriend other parents, but don't seem to be very good at it. I shoulder the entire adult social burden, so it's all on me, and it's hard work.
@rachel Agreed on the irony. Obviously, there are subtleties here that lie beyond our ken.
@therextras and @zb Yes, great comments, very insightful. If only I were wildly wealthy and popular...I guess then they'd be banging down the door. We have tried various social activities, like Scouts, and they are a total disaster for us, unfortunately.
@bethany...we've had that experience. Several times.
@chelli...while TH doesn't get bossed, he does get tricked into things a lot. Not good.
@K wish we had some sort of regular social meetup like that for our kids. It would be a good thing.
@kristina I know our difficulties vary from yours, and I appreciate your support.
@FW2 We've also tried various other social-oriented venues, like church, etc...nothing seems to work. We'll keep trying.
@lynnes...I'll have to get over to your blog and read that. Thanks for posting.
@heather But when I say that I like someone's hair, I'm saying it because...I like their hair. So confusing.
@BigDaddy One concern I have is that for my oldest, his interests have stayed the same while his best friend's interests are clearly moving on. I'm watching a growing divide there, I think, and it's saddening.
Is there a good homeschooling community near you? I am always so pleasantly surprised that many homeschooling kids are either very quirky themselves or super accepting. If there isn't a homeschool coop in your area maybe you could start one. I don't know what I do without ours!!
@christine We do homeschool our oldest, and he also participates in a weekly social skills class with five other homeschooled children on the spectrum. He also goes on Saturday outings with different groups from the same therapy place. And our children are lucky because they've got seven cousins living in their general vicinity, so we do things with the cousins--all near each other in age--frequently. But that's not playdates, and this playdate thing remains more a source of frustration and discomfort for us than anything.
I always thought that when parents initially said 'sure' and talked about looking when they have time but then they never follow up, that it meant that after the initial contact they'd asked their kid about it, and the kid said no (or expressed their dislike in some way), and then the parents thought it was easiest to just not do anything at all instead of either make their kid play with someone they don't like, or fess up and call back and admit to that.
Playdates of this kind didn't really exist when and where I was young, but sometimes someone asked to come over, I didn't really like them. Or it'd be my birthday and I didn't want to invite them. But my parents always made me invite them over and play with them by playing on my guilt. I'm absolutely certain that it also happened that I asked to go over to someone else's, or invited them over, and they didn't want to be around me. I usually had a few friends, but never very many, and for a few years I didn't have any at all.
Emily, speaking of playdates, our family lives near I-35 in your old home town. I would be thrilled to see your family for a playdate, either at our excellent small town zoo or at the children's museum. My kids like acorns, too.
I couldn't find your email on the blog, but I'm reachable via my blog (xantippesblog.blogspot.com). If you click on "feel free to write me" (at the end of my profile) it opens up a contactify thingy.
Our girls don't get invitations for playdates. Then again, they only get invited to one birthday party per year, and it's by the same boy every year. And they don't go. They did the first year, but tbey don't anymore. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the little boy or his mother, father or siblings.
It has to do with our girls. With the way that Hopper freaks out and has panic attacks and tries to hide under tables when someone starts singing, "Happy Birthday" and is absolutely miserable and never wants to go again. And how Scooter is picking up Hopper's habits where all this is concerned, and I feel horrible that I have to decline their invitations.
That being said, I did explain this to the mother one year. That it had nothing to do with her son, who happens to be autistic, but that it has to do with the fact that it is beyond hard for the girls, and it makes it hard for anyone else to enjoy the party. She seemed to understand, and I appreciate that, but we still get the invitations every year. I try to remember to RSVP and let them know we won't be able to make it, but I don't beat myself up over it, since we talked at length about it in the past. I don't know. Maybe I should make more of an effort to let them know we can't make it and why. Just in case they've forgotten...
It really does stink that our girls don't have friends over, or playdates but I'm not sure what the solution is.
Interesting post.
I live in Ireland so the cultural context is different, but "playdates" are big here as well. And, being a foreigner, until a teacher suggested them, I didn't even know what the word meant. In my ignorance, I took the phone number of the mother in question, called her and arranged to pick up both kids from school and that she can collect her daughter later in the afternoon. She was more than happy with this arrangement, and so it went. We've only got one invitation back this far, but this doesn't bother me - I know I've been providing free childcare of sorts, but if M has friends who like to come to our house I am not going to grumble.
Like Truf, I've given up keeping tit for tat invitations, because I truly don't mind hosting, and if social good (for my kids, and the community) come from it, that's great.
Judy -- in the other mom's place, I too would continue to send invites to your girls (even if you always decline), because I'd assume that you *can* always turn down the invitation, and I'd want to give the opportunity to you, if your situation changed and you thought the girls might want to try out the party. It seems more appropriate to give the other person the chance to decline rather than declining for them.
But, thinking it through, I guess I'm not sure -- should you invite a paralyzed person to a ski party or a observant Jewish person to a party on Saturday? What do folks think?
ZB, I'd invite them because the point is that you'd like their presence. That's it. It's their decision regarding whether or not they can attend and why.
My neighbor just called me last night about the same thing. He is a stay-at-home dad and didn't know the etiquette. It's a hard thing to navigate. Sometimes I still can't tell, and others I'm sure think I'm blowing them off...but really, this life is insane and sometimes I don't know where my head is, much less my calendar. LOL. Hang in there...remember, it must not be *that* bad, or the parents wouldn't allow their children to come to your home.
Post a Comment